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Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

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Should the TEC use a lag out formula

63% 63% 
[ 56 ]
30% 30% 
[ 27 ]
7% 7% 
[ 6 ]
 
Total Votes : 89

Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Lotterer on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:04 pm

TORA Members

This poll is for the future of the TEC ,when drivers disconnect from the lobby should it be closed case you score the distance you have driven or would you rather we devised a method that could award them some distance to keep teams still in the race ,please note that should this be used in no way would a disconnected driver score a distance to keep their positions.

Please feel free to ask questions before you choose to vote.
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by HCR Motorhead on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:21 pm

To expand, you may have seen it mooted so we wanted to bring it to a vote straight away.

The lagout formula is something used most recently on TURN for the VEC which gives entries a fair distance when a team lags out such that teams can stay in the race and aren't sent immediately to the bottom with no chance of improvement and no real reason to continue.

So if this is something that we all vote to implement, we can then confer what we think would be a good system to go forward.

We would like to hear any and all feedback and suggestions.


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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:24 pm

Yes. We agreed the VEC one is generous so we will likely find something in the middle that will keep everyone happy. Some great ideas have been proposed behind the scenes which will be great for teams up and down the grid that suffer a lagout.
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by HCR Noodle on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:24 pm

To gain said miles, could participants be required to record a game clip to prove said lag out? There may be situations where this isn't possible, but it seems the best method.



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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Lotterer on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:30 pm

Clips won't be required no
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:32 pm

There won't be any benefit to disconnecting voluntarily. For example, we lagged out in the lead on Saturday and even with a lag out rule, we would still be starting last but we'd be in touching distance. If someone just quits, they won't have gained anything or helped their cause in any way but we could introduce what you just said.
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:32 pm

Never mind I guess ha
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by BAM Leigh on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:35 pm

i feel this should not be brought in because people could abuse the system, for example someone could crash and get damage that would cause them to lose over a lap getting back to the pits. but if the new system was to be brought in it would mean they could quit the lobby and claim it to be a lag out. but this could be combated by making people show a gameclip of them lagging out rather then quiting the lobby.

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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by HCR generaltso on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:40 pm


IIRC it was a mile behind the last place finisher in your class, correct?
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Lotterer on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:42 pm

Ohh believe when I say this ,if you crash it's best to pit and continue as you will still score more than what a lag formula will award you.
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by HCR Motorhead on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:53 pm

DizzyCupid519 wrote:i feel this should not be brought in because people could abuse the system, for example someone could crash and get damage that would cause them to lose over a lap getting back to the pits. but if the new system was to be brought in it would mean they could quit the lobby and claim it to be a lag out. but this could be combated by making people show a gameclip of them lagging out rather then quiting the lobby.

Well, here's the thing. it's not going to be THAT generous. Staying in racing would garner more distance 99% of the time. Its design is to not leave you 100 miles behind anybody and so out of contention that you might as well call it a day.


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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by BAM Leigh on Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:32 pm

HCR Motorhead wrote:
DizzyCupid519 wrote:i feel this should not be brought in because people could abuse the system, for example someone could crash and get damage that would cause them to lose over a lap getting back to the pits. but if the new system was to be brought in it would mean they could quit the lobby and claim it to be a lag out. but this could be combated by making people show a gameclip of them lagging out rather then quiting the lobby.

Well, here's the thing. it's not going to be THAT generous. Staying in racing would garner more distance 99% of the time. Its design is to not leave you 100 miles behind anybody and so out of contention that you might as well call it a day.

oh ok thanks for clearing it up for me, it was just a issue i thought of

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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by Om3ga73 on Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:58 pm

I don't do all that much racing around TORA but I seem to recall something similar being used in years past. Am I misremembering or was something like this previously done away with at some point in the past?
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:03 pm

Om3ga73 wrote:I don't do all that much racing around TORA but I seem to recall something similar being used in years past. Am I misremembering or was something like this previously done away with at some point in the past?

You are correct. Back in FM4 this was used and then endurance racing took a hiatus, as did much of the staff who originally implemented it so when rules were being made for 2016, this wasn't thought of or considered.

It is brought in as a measure to protect drivers from dodgy servers or their connections not seeing eye to eye with the servers. In many cases, there is nothing they can do unfortunately. This protects their efforts in painting, tuning, practicing and generally, the time they've given up out of their lives to compete. At the end of the day, everyone is here to have fun and compete but when someones suffers a lagout, a whole team is affected and the wind taken out of their sails.
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by LMP Phantom on Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:06 pm

lag outs don't loose that much distance from what I've seen. The 2 LMP GoPro & RR teams have suffered lag outs at every event so far and we're still pretty decent in the standings. Just my thoughts


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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:09 pm

LMP Phantom wrote:lag outs don't loose that much distance from what I've seen. The 2 LMP GoPro & RR teams have suffered lag outs at every event so far and we're still pretty decent in the standings. Just my thoughts

I guess it depends when you lag out? We lost over 100 miles on Saturday from a single lagout. That's over 25 laps.
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Lotterer on Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:13 am

But don't you feel the LMP cars could do better if you wasn't hindered with constant lagouts ?
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by HCR TJSteel on Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:04 am

F4H Chrisupra wrote:
LMP Phantom wrote:lag outs don't loose that much distance from what I've seen. The 2 LMP GoPro & RR teams have suffered lag outs at every event so far and we're still pretty decent in the standings. Just my thoughts

I guess it depends when you lag out? We lost over 100 miles on Saturday from a single lagout. That's over 25 laps.

I lost 2 stints, which is over 300 miles but I still came 28th, which I suppose is better than last lol

One thing I would say is that this rule should only apply to the teams who actually carry on till the end, the one thing we don't want is to implement it and still have people just quit once they have a lagout, therefore throwing away any work we do on a formula for it





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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by AdamWatson99 on Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:18 am

I think if this lag out system goes through then a game clip needs to be shown because the system can easily be abused.

You ca easily fake a lag out by leaving the game and say you lag out. Then leave the party or fake a power cut. Easy to do
What do you count as a lagout? Disconnection from the game or actually leave the game when you turn you xbox off or even power cut





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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by HCR TJSteel on Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:53 am

AdamWatson99 wrote:I think if this lag out system goes through then a game clip needs to be shown because the system can easily be abused.

You ca easily fake a lag out by leaving the game and say you lag out. Then leave the party or fake a power cut. Easy to do
What do you count as a lagout? Disconnection from the game or actually leave the game when you turn you xbox off or even power cut

if you did it on purpose then you'd be an idiot as you wouldn't benefit at all from that,
If this gets voted in then it will be made in a way that would benefit no-one by disconnecting

A DNF would be classified as not finishing the race.

If it gets voted in then the formula will be shared and put up for discussion before being implemented.





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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Xyloto on Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:05 pm

HCR TJSteel wrote:
F4H Chrisupra wrote:
LMP Phantom wrote:lag outs don't loose that much distance from what I've seen. The 2 LMP GoPro & RR teams have suffered lag outs at every event so far and we're still pretty decent in the standings. Just my thoughts

I guess it depends when you lag out? We lost over 100 miles on Saturday from a single lagout. That's over 25 laps.

I lost 2 stints, which is over 300 miles but I still came 28th, which I suppose is better than last lol

One thing I would say is that this rule should only apply to the teams who actually carry on till the end, the one thing we don't want is to implement it and still have people just quit once they have a lagout, therefore throwing away any work we do on a formula for it

I think the whole point is incentivizing those teams to keep going, instead of quitting? Don't entirely follow your argument here. The key would be making a rule that loses a team some distance, but keeps them in touch enough that they don't have, as in your case, 300 miles to make up.
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by DonatedSatyr227 on Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:21 pm

You could give a team 90% of what they could off gotten if they had not lagged out ?

You can work this out by using the 2 average lap times from qualifying from each team. (just like how we work out the starting grid) So if the average lap time off a team in qualifying was e.g. 2 minutes you would work out how many laps or miles you would multiply until you get to 100mins e.g.

average lap time by team - 2 minutes

Stint time 100 minutes

The team would do 50 laps per stint.

Each lap is 3 miles

the team would get 150 miles

90 % of 150 is 135 miles

The team who lagged out who be given 135 miles because of the lag out.

And you make sure people cannot just quit a bad stint to gain some miles the rule could only be used:

1 time in a 12 hour race

2 times in a 24 hour race

What do you think ?
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Xyloto on Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:04 pm

The British 1st wrote:You could give a team 90% of what they could off gotten if they had not lagged out ?

You can work this out by using the 2 average lap times from qualifying from each team. (just like how we work out the starting grid) So if the average lap time off a team in qualifying was e.g. 2 minutes  you would work out how many laps or miles you would multiply until you get to 100mins e.g.

average lap time by team -  2 minutes

Stint time 100 minutes

The team would do 50 laps per stint.

Each lap is 3 miles

the team would get 150 miles

90 % of 150 is 135 miles

The team who lagged out who be given 135 miles because of the lag out.

And you make sure people cannot just quit a bad stint to gain some miles the rule could only be used:

1 time in a 12 hour race

2 times in a 24 hour race

What do you think ?

I think it would have to be a monumentally bad stint for them to quit and gain miles when one will lose like 15+ miles with that rule. Even a terrible stint you only lose like 3 miles tops. If my memory serves, Bellmond had a terrible wet stint on VEC 24 Hours of Le Mans, and ended up only 8,000, or at most 12,000 behind me(correct me if I'm wrong Chris). I think it's easier to do a last place minus 2 rule, or something like that, as you won't win or beat anybody if you just "lag out" of stints, so there's not really any advantage in doing so.
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Diablo on Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:00 pm

It's a tough call on all this, for sure. We need something that can quickly be added without needing stint data.

This is what I've thought up-
Try this- 90% of distance based on qualifying times.

Formula:
[(Q1sec+Q2sec)/2] / (Track Distance in Miles) = X1
[(60/X1)*100min]*93% = Distance adjusted for lagout

In practice, using my lagout as an example-

[(121.909+122.273)/2] / (3.861) = 31.622
[(60/31.622)*100min]*93% = 176.42 miles

Now for Stint 1, this would've been a smaller penalty due to the rolling start, but that's a 10 mile penalty for lagging out. In a 12 hour race, I think that's pretty fair. I could see 90 working but a 15 mile penalty is pretty severe. Bathurst isn't a good example because it's so easy to wreck and have to make an extra stop. A 15 mile penalty at Sebring would be game over.

Feel free to discuss, criticize, and what not.


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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:06 pm

F4H Diablo wrote:It's a tough call on all this, for sure. We need something that can quickly be added without needing stint data.

This is what I've thought up-
Try this- 90% of distance based on qualifying times.

Formula:
[(Q1sec+Q2sec)/2] / (Track Distance in Miles) = X1
[(60/X1)*100min]*93% = Distance adjusted for lagout

In practice, using my lagout as an example-

[(121.909+122.273)/2] / (3.861) = 31.622
[(60/31.622)*100min]*93% = 176.42 miles

Now for Stint 1, this would've been a smaller penalty due to the rolling start, but that's a 10 mile penalty for lagging out. In a 12 hour race, I think that's pretty fair. I could see 90 working but a 15 mile penalty is pretty severe. Bathurst isn't a good example because it's so easy to wreck and have to make an extra stop. A 15 mile penalty at Sebring would be game over.

Feel free to discuss, criticize, and what not.

What is Q1 and Q2?
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Re: Community VOTE : TEC Lag out formula.

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