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The Unfortunate Truth

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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by F4H ForceOne on Wed 2 Nov 2016 - 0:48

stug77 wrote:If I could just say one thing (no offence to anyone) the events of Sunday night were disappointing but it's happened and more importantly in the past with ....I assume lessons learned.......we are now on Wednesday and yet all I see is bickering between members/staff.......so my proposal.....is......build a bridge and get over it.
It's not bickering, it's discussion. Some people want to see things improve.
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by DOR stug77 on Wed 2 Nov 2016 - 7:45

As do I but three days sorry two days of it? Don't know why I thought it was Wednesday yesterday lol.
I do get the feeling I'm not supposed to comment in conversations of the longer standing members here so with that said I will say no more.
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by Standaman94 on Wed 2 Nov 2016 - 11:29

Your opinions are just as valid as any else's







If you want to survive out here, you've got to know where your towel is.
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by DOR stug77 on Wed 2 Nov 2016 - 11:45

Good to know cheers
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by xebot360 on Wed 2 Nov 2016 - 12:08

Starting time is a big issue on TORA I feel as ideally there shouldn't be delays. Even if it means setting up the lobby 30 mins before the start, that may be needed to sort out any issues and if any issues do arise, these should be looked at by staff and seen what can be done to not have them arise in future

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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by EZT MAKO 6669 on Wed 2 Nov 2016 - 14:25

stug77 wrote:If I could just say one thing (no offence to anyone) the events of Sunday night were disappointing but it's happened and more importantly in the past with ....I assume lessons learned.......we are now on Wednesday and yet all I see is bickering between members/staff.......so my proposal.....is......build a bridge and get over it.

It has been a few days and we need to move on from this one, yes. But this topic has come up numerous times across multiple series, so it would seem that lessons have not been learned. It would appear that we may have some flaws in our procedures/systems that are causing these delays.Your right that bickering will not solve anything, but constructive discussion will, and I think that is the point of this thread. We all need to work together, staff, team members, and members to identify and solve the problems.

Obviously, there are any numbers of things that can and do cause delays. We need to identify these things so that the staff and organizers can come up with ways to help insure that race nights go more smoothly. Drivers can be a big help to by, oh, I don't know, actually being on time and ready to go when invites go out?

And I second Stan's opinion, you have every right to post your thoughts along with everyone else!
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by DOR stug77 on Wed 2 Nov 2016 - 14:32

Well the one thing that's stood out to me is drivers especially new members that maybe don't know the correct procedure eg registering and sign in which was one of if not the main reason for delays another though which I noticed in tcc a few times is drivers not making sure their console is updated before getting or trying to get into lobbys
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by xebot360 on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 8:06

If drivers aren't online at that time then really you should go without them and do a qualy lobby for them later to avoid delays. Same with drivers who haven't done updates.

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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by F4H Lotterer on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 8:16

Scrap signing in completely it's a wasted effort just hold series registration and split this into qualifying groups with a set host ,then put responsibility on the member to ensure they have checked to see who their host is .
Hosts should NOT be waiting around for people to join instead a host should open the lobby 30 mins prior to qualifying starting and those required to join should join themselves ,after all it will be on live timing who your host is so no excuse in not joining on time so the host can start bang on time.

The sad truth is far too many people here are under the illusion that this is always a host issue well wrong ,how about you get off your arse and check who the host is and just join .
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by xebot360 on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 8:28

F4H Lotterer wrote:Scrap signing in completely it's a wasted effort just hold series registration and split this into qualifying groups with a set host ,then put responsibility on the member to ensure they have checked to see who their host is .
Hosts should NOT be waiting around for people to join instead a host should open the lobby 30 mins prior to qualifying starting and those required to join should join themselves ,after all it will be on live timing who your host is so no excuse in not joining on time so the host can start bang on time.

The sad truth is far too many people here are under the illusion that this is always a host issue well wrong ,how about you get off your arse and check who the host is and just join .

That would work for all series (maybe not TEC or other endurance stuff though). Don't get why doesn't happen anyway to be honest and I fully agree with your first point too. I think most people blame the host as they're the ones running that lobby so assume that it's their responsibility to sort everything out

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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by ShrinkingSteven on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 9:06

F4H Lotterer wrote:Scrap signing in completely it's a wasted effort just hold series registration and split this into qualifying groups with a set host ,then put responsibility on the member to ensure they have checked to see who their host is .
Hosts should NOT be waiting around for people to join instead a host should open the lobby 30 mins prior to qualifying starting and those required to join should join themselves ,after all it will be on live timing who your host is so no excuse in not joining on time so the host can start bang on time.

The sad truth is far too many people here are under the illusion that this is always a host issue well wrong ,how about you get off your arse and check who the host is and just join .


yes!
just f-ing YES!
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by HCR Solar on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 11:07

Think alot of people are missing alot of Valid Points in certain posts. if we carry on the way were going, with people Putting out threats and yes i will name them "Flying Mikey J : Ill take my Series somewhere else with me", and just other Staff trying cover there arse's, we have had multiple discussions on how to improve TORA as a whole, but when has stuff been Implemented also, look at the Staff Members who have Left, 1 been the Vice-President because clearly something behind close doors is doing his head in, he had plans ready for the upcoming year,

i just think either now or never, either let TORA Fall or Pick our selves back up.




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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by FranchittiFan on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 11:58

Ive been here a longggggg time.

The system is far better than it was in the early days of TORA and for that we should be grateful, especially that its not a computer doing the hosting for you, but a person with a life looks willing to help out for that I thank you.

Docs are a wonderful thing, but can cause delays when they go wrong as they did last Sunday, but there was still great racing and above all that's the reason we're all here.

I apologize for the delays that happened and we are working to make sure theres no were near that length of waiting around again, like all of we we want the night to go super smoothly, which I'm confident it will do so for the next 2 rounds.
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by DOR stug77 on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 12:35

FranchittiFan wrote:Ive been here a longggggg time.

The system is far better than it was in the early days of TORA and for that we should be grateful, especially that its not a computer doing the hosting for you, but a person with a life looks willing to help out for that I thank you.

Docs are a wonderful thing, but can cause delays when they go wrong as they did last Sunday, but there was still great racing and above all that's the reason we're all here.

I apologize for the delays that happened and we are working to make sure theres no were near that length of waiting around again, like all of we we want the night to go super smoothly, which I'm confident it will do so for the next 2 rounds.

I agree at the end of the day we are all still here because we have a love.....no.....wait..... a passion for motorsport and for people like me who can't get to real races or have the privilege to be able to race for real then this is the next best thing
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by EZT MAKO 6669 on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 14:03

FranchittiFan wrote:
Docs are a wonderful thing, but can cause delays when they go wrong as they did last Sunday, but there was still great racing and above all that's the reason we're all here.


Until consistent delays make it impossible for those of us with limited time to race.

Lotterer brings up a valid point related to the signing in process. There is no clear directive to get anyone on the friend list. I've heard numerous times in pre-race or qualifying lobbies, so and so isn't on my friends list. Does anyone else have them? Can you send them an invite? That alone can cause un-necessary delays.

Most of us have raced at other leagues where they use a dedicated friends list for a series. All drivers who wish to race must get on that list. Yes, it's a bit cumbersome and adds another task for an organizer, but it does simplify things for the host sending out invites. Everyone who is registered should be there on that one list. If your not there, or not showing online, you don't race, simple as that.

I think Lotterer's idea is a very good one, but it would still require a reminder to get your assigned host on your friends list. Then the responsibility is on the drivers to be in the lobby on time. And the time should be strictly adhered to, if your not there at the stated start time, you missed it!
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by CAR Harmonic on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 14:36

F4H Lotterer wrote:Scrap signing in completely it's a wasted effort just hold series registration and split this into qualifying groups with a set host ,then put responsibility on the member to ensure they have checked to see who their host is .
Hosts should NOT be waiting around for people to join instead a host should open the lobby 30 mins prior to qualifying starting and those required to join should join themselves ,after all it will be on live timing who your host is so no excuse in not joining on time so the host can start bang on time.

The sad truth is far too many people here are under the illusion that this is always a host issue well wrong ,how about you get off your arse and check who the host is and just join .

Most of this I can agree on. However, as I stated before, hosts need to make sure that they do NOT appear offline so that players can actually join if their invites somehow don't show up.
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by HCR Motorhead on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 14:42

CAR Harmonic wrote:
F4H Lotterer wrote:Scrap signing in completely it's a wasted effort just hold series registration and split this into qualifying groups with a set host ,then put responsibility on the member to ensure they have checked to see who their host is .
Hosts should NOT be waiting around for people to join instead a host should open the lobby 30 mins prior to qualifying starting and those required to join should join themselves ,after all it will be on live timing who your host is so no excuse in not joining on time so the host can start bang on time.

The sad truth is far too many people here are under the illusion that this is always a host issue well wrong ,how about you get off your arse and check who the host is and just join .

Most of this I can agree on. However, as I stated before, hosts need to make sure that they do NOT appear offline so that players can actually join if their invites somehow don't show up.

Yeah I got messages from others about this, as I was setting up and inviting my own lobby. Hosts should appear online. We usually have hosts conferring in the same party or are otherwise contacting each other so even if there's a player to player issue hopefully this can be resolved efficiently.


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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by xebot360 on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 15:29

From what I've saw and raced in, the delays have been way too constant. Mikeys was probably one of the best in terms of times and all that (FROM WHAT I RACED IN) but there were delays but nothing massive like in some series. TEC is acceptable but not to the point where it's getting on for 20-30 mins, that's wrong cause it's not hard to get a lobby started on time and have all the issues sorted before the starting time from my experience of hosting TEC lobbies. Either way, the hosts need to sort out when they start and the people need to sort out when they join cause two mins before a lobby shouldn't be acceptable and hosts not doing their job properly isn't acceptable

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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by HCR Motorhead on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 15:55

You have to remember that TEC is a very unique event. Hardly anyone past and present could muster the resources and expertise that is required. And indeed it is very ambitious which is why we're still trying to refine the product.

It's easy to say that people should be invited on time and stints start bang on the hour but unless we impose heavy (and very unpopular) restrictions on stints then there might always be a few minutes knocked on the end of each subsequent block. But what is daft is people moaning about any minuscule delay whilst they have drivers who triple/quad stint.


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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by FAA xXNutterXx on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 16:30

F4H ForceOne wrote:



F4H ForceOne wrote:You have series' where ONE GUY does the builds for over 10 cars.
Given the uproar from the past couple weeks, it's pretty obvious this is aimed at me. I'm on a Dev TEAM, yet I was the ONLY one putting up suggestions to progress the BoP process. Do you think I wanted to do hours of testing by MYSELF just to get things done on time? Hell no, but reactions (like this post) could've been even worse if I didn't, and I didn't want to be held responsible for that since I've committed to being a member of Dev Team. I thought I did a pretty damn good job for Silverstone, but if a car is a tenth or two quicker than the rest (which is more than good enough based on previous TORA events), there's not a whole lot I can do when I'm balancing things with little to no help.

Bottom line - if you're not happy with how things are run here, feel free to step away for a while, and then come back once you feel things are more to your liking.
Just to clarify David, I was suggesting that it's unfair that you have to do the builds without help, not that the builds were poorly done because only one person did them.


that is the problem think there 14 people on the dev team group why the f is only 1 doing the work , If people are not doing anything then remove them and put people there who will , As for staff members threatening to leave unless they get there own way then if i was a staff member id say bye then that is playground [Censored] grow up your supposed to be staff you guys should work together for things to be run the same across all series , Good Old Saying 2 many chiefs and not enough Indians not 1 staff member on tora listens to the community that race in there series and when that community that make tora what it is do make suggestions they get attitude and shot down instantly as there not a staff member , On its current path tora isn't going to get any better just a lot worse
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by HCR Motorhead on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 16:41

FAA xXNutterXx wrote:
F4H ForceOne wrote:



F4H ForceOne wrote:You have series' where ONE GUY does the builds for over 10 cars.
Given the uproar from the past couple weeks, it's pretty obvious this is aimed at me. I'm on a Dev TEAM, yet I was the ONLY one putting up suggestions to progress the BoP process. Do you think I wanted to do hours of testing by MYSELF just to get things done on time? Hell no, but reactions (like this post) could've been even worse if I didn't, and I didn't want to be held responsible for that since I've committed to being a member of Dev Team. I thought I did a pretty damn good job for Silverstone, but if a car is a tenth or two quicker than the rest (which is more than good enough based on previous TORA events), there's not a whole lot I can do when I'm balancing things with little to no help.

Bottom line - if you're not happy with how things are run here, feel free to step away for a while, and then come back once you feel things are more to your liking.
Just to clarify David, I was suggesting that it's unfair that you have to do the builds without help, not that the builds were poorly done because only one person did them.


that is the problem 1. think there 14 people on the dev team group why the f is only 1 doing the work , If people are not doing anything then remove them and put people there who will , As for staff members threatening to leave unless they get there own way then if i was a staff member id say bye then that is playground [Censored] grow up your supposed to be staff you guys should work together for things to be run the same across all series , Good Old Saying 2 many chiefs and not enough Indians 2. not 1 staff member on tora listens to the community that race in there series and when that community that make tora what it is do make suggestions they get attitude and shot down instantly as there not a staff member , On its current path tora isn't going to get any better just a lot worse

1. There is more than 1 contributor. Otherwise I know Harmonic would have been more vocal. We ran cars together, myself and Deftone did too among many others. Please don't go assuming things when you're not even there and don't know what goes on.

2. Of course we listen. It's funny that you come into a thread with a LOT of great constructive feedback and moan about TORA not listening to constructive feedback...in a very destructive manner. But if you think things will get worse then we're not forcing you to stay.


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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by CAR Harmonic on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 16:51

I think 4 pages of moaning is enough... A few people have already expressed their discontent with TORA proceedings in this thread; we don't need 20 more to do the same.

What WILL help is a suggested solution(s) to the issues that should be addressed. Pointing out a problem without suggesting a solution at this point is a problem itself. The staff will probably listen if you make good suggestions instead of chewing their ears off about how they don't bend over backwards for you.
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by HCR Motorhead on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 16:57

CAR Harmonic wrote:I think 4 pages of moaning is enough... A few people have already expressed their discontent with TORA proceedings in this thread; we don't need 20 more to do the same.

What WILL help is a suggested solution(s) to the issues that should be addressed. Pointing out a problem without suggesting a solution at this point is a problem itself. The staff will probably listen if you make good suggestions instead of chewing their ears off about how they don't bend over backwards for you.

Our hero. Cheers

As has been pointed out, and what we're saying right now, we are already addressing some of the points mentioned. And we take everything onboard, although it's hard to take anything from "TORA fix this ****." Razz


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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by DOR stug77 on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 17:06

HCR Motorhead wrote:
CAR Harmonic wrote:I think 4 pages of moaning is enough... A few people have already expressed their discontent with TORA proceedings in this thread; we don't need 20 more to do the same.

What WILL help is a suggested solution(s) to the issues that should be addressed. Pointing out a problem without suggesting a solution at this point is a problem itself. The staff will probably listen if you make good suggestions instead of chewing their ears off about how they don't bend over backwards for you.

Our hero. Cheers

As has been pointed out, and what we're saying right now, we are already addressing some of the points mentioned. And we take everything onboard, although it's hard to take anything from "TORA fix this ****." Razz

I agree 100% hence the comments I've made in this thread
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Re: The Unfortunate Truth

Post by HCR TJSteel on Thu 3 Nov 2016 - 17:58

FAA xXNutterXx wrote:not 1 staff member on tora listens to the community that race in there series and when that community that make tora what it is do make suggestions they get attitude and shot down instantly as there not a staff member , On its current path tora isn't going to get any better just a lot worse

You're clearly speaking to the wrong staff members then, If you've been following TEC this year and seen how much the rules have changed since the start of the series I think that's proof that some of us are hear to fight for the communities best interests.


HCR Motorhead wrote:"TORA fix this ****."

Certainly, I'll get right to it... what was I supposed to be fixing again?

Haven't had time to read the whole thread yet but I'll check this tonight when I get home





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