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A Harsh But Necessary Review

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A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by CAR Harmonic on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 17:30

With the final race of the 2016 TEC season coming to a close, there are many, many things that need to be said. As always, thanks are due to those who kept the event running for the whole 24 hours, and the event took place mostly on schedule, so that’s a plus! I offer my congratulations to the class winners and podium drivers for a job well done. I also commend those I battled in TCC for some spectacular racing and excellent racing etiquette. Unfortunately, my positive feedback ends there.

There’s no beating around the bush on this one… Some drivers exhibited absolutely appalling behavior on track, and quite frankly, they should not be allowed to race here anymore. The back markers of GT continuously interfered with the TCC leaders and sometimes the whole pack, and it caused many unnecessary incidents that significantly changed the results for quite a few teams. Here are the following names, in no particular order, that I noticed were interfering with TCC cars:

MAB170294
Mad Bull Ben
LMP Dragon
LMP Phantom
Capirossi22
ruthlessrelik
FIA ARROYUELO78
DarkGunner40
camo496
Tachyon Racing
Windcharger8199
FIA Jose Team

I’m sure there are a couple more that I’ve missed, but either I, my teammates, or rival TCC teams in my stints had issues with AT LEAST 2 of any of the above drivers. These drivers clearly have not read the rules, and they are not experienced enough (and in my blunt opinion, intelligent enough) to be racing here. This isn’t an issue of driver skill or pace… That had almost nothing to do with the issues that were caused. If you’re not the quickest guy in the field, that’s perfectly fine, but for Christ’s sake, if you’re running at the pace of the class BELOW you, you need to make sure you aren’t serving as a disruption to the race going on in that class. If you ARE a disruption, you should be in the lower class, or you should just not be driving period. I observed only ONE driver that made sure he did not interfere despite being off pace - Dr CHAIR PHD, I thank you for this. The rest of you, your behavior on track is inexcusable. If you are that uncertain on how to drive this course without going off the track, you simply shouldn’t be racing in this event. I would expect something along the lines of a 107% rule, maybe even stricter, to be implemented for future events. Catering to a few crybabies who have absolutely no clue how to behave themselves on track ruins the racing for everyone else that has actually put time, effort, and discipline into it. Staff, take note – if you want to hold yourselves to the slogan “As Real as it Gets”, cater to those who know HOW to race.

I have been racing here since 2013, and I have noticed a slow yet steady decline of the quality of the events here. I used to look forward to waking up at odd hours of the night to bring the car home and see if we could pull off a great finish even when at a disadvantage. Now, I had almost no initiative to do this race, and after the abhorrent etiquette exhibited by the aforementioned drivers, I don’t have any initiative to continue. I have made countless suggestions to marshals, stewards, and staff over the course of my participation here, but none of them are considered, and then we experience the very issues my suggestions would’ve addressed. I did 90% of the work on Dev Team, and people still complain about balancing (even when it’s the closest it has been all season) without lifting a damned finger. It’s a shame that I can find better GT endurance racing in a Modern GT hopper than here on TORA. It’s a shame that I can find better multiclass racing in an ABCS lobby than here on TORA. Finally, it’s a shame that I can find more competitive AND clean racing on ESL than here on TORA.

I didn’t think that ANOTHER post of this nature would be necessary after the recent one supposedly knocking some sense into the staff, but apparently that’s not the case… TORA needs an overhaul, plain and simple. Until something major changes, I don’t see any reason to continue on here. I will be removing myself from Dev Team, and I will be transitioning over to iRacing. If things look better in the future, I might show up here again, but until then… Good luck to all of you who choose to stick around.

Regards,
David
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by F4H ForceOne on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 17:51

Agreed. My best advice is to go enjoy iRacing and never look back.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 18:17

Fair play David. We fully support your viewpoint and it had to be said. You've pretty much covered all bases and I also felt that recurring feeling I have about leaving 'competitive' racing here at TORA. It has declined and it is and isn't TORA's fault.

Granted you guys had a lagout but we shouldn't be winning TCC class by nearly 50 miles. We even came 6th in GT class so we will celebrate that also. It really is about the standard and quality of what is on show. I've seen wonderful battles over the years in A, B and C lobbies but what we witnessed this weekend is truly the lowest we've encountered. There is a problem, we need to fix it.

You know I am on iRacing already so I will see you there anyway.

Cheers David
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by galeforce97 on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 18:23

I have said this to certain people and I'll say it here as well part of the issue was the amount of entries being capped at less than other rounds. All other rounds I have raced in had 2 lobbies but this for some reason only had 1 which forced some teams to reduce their entries and it also caused a much bigger problem. Drivers who would have been at the back of lobby B and were no where near the pace of the faster drivers were forced to try and compete with the some of the fastest people on TORA. If there were still 2 lobbys then they would have been with people of similar pace and there wouldn't have been as many issues for example the slower GT cars would probably have not been caught by leading TCC cars in lobby B. Most of the problems you had wouldn't have happened had this round been run like the other rounds before it. I didn't see any explanation as to why the field was reduced. You may say this had nothing to do with pace or skill but clearly it does. The only reason you caught them is that they are not able to match the pace of their class. I personally found this to be the most boring endurance race because apart from the occasional battle with LMP the Lad there was no one on the same pace as me in the lobby. In my stints I was easily the slowest TCC car and it wasn't fun. Le mans I had a battle in every stint in lobby B. Same with Bathurst, Daytona, Sebring even the 1 stint I did at the Glen was fun because there was a battle. Making it only 1 lobby hurts the less experienced and slower drivers because they are in a lobby with people that are clearly quicker and more skilled. Although these drivers may have been in the wrong a major factor is the fact that they are put in a race with people substantially better than them. There is normally a sizeable gap in pace of lobby A which leads to people being more spread out but Lobby B tends to be closer. Making it only one lobby means that the skill gap is made to look much greater than it normally would be.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 18:29

galeforce97 wrote:I have said this to certain people and I'll say it here as well part of the issue was the amount of entries being capped at less than other rounds. All other rounds I have raced in had 2 lobbies but this for some reason only had 1 which forced some teams to reduce their entries and it also caused a much bigger problem. Drivers who would have been at the back of lobby B and were no where near the pace of the faster drivers were forced to try and compete with the some of the fastest people on TORA. If there were still 2 lobbys then they would have been with people of similar pace and there wouldn't have been as many issues for example the slower GT cars would probably have not been caught by leading TCC cars in lobby B. Most of the problems you had wouldn't have happened had this round been run like the other rounds before it. I didn't see any explanation as to why the field was reduced. You may say this had nothing to do with pace or skill but clearly it does. The only reason you caught them is that they are not able to match the pace of their class. I personally found this to be the most boring endurance race because apart from the occasional battle with LMP the Lad there was no one on the same pace as me in the lobby. In my stints I was easily the slowest TCC car and it wasn't fun. Le mans I had a battle in every stint in lobby B. Same with Bathurst, Daytona, Sebring even the 1 stint I did at the Glen was fun because there was a battle. Making it only 1 lobby hurts the less experienced and slower drivers because they are in a lobby with people that are clearly quicker and more skilled. Although these drivers may have been in the wrong a major factor is the fact that they are put in a race with people substantially better than them. There is normally a sizeable gap in pace of lobby A which leads to people being more spread out but Lobby B tends to be closer. Making it only one lobby means that the skill gap is made to look much greater than it normally would be.

While I see your point, they were not exactly turning teams away. This was all they got. At the same time, the question of quality is still there and that clown ruthlessrellik, I mean, WTF?! TORA were blindsided by someone like that and they can't allow it happen again. Something needs to be put in place.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by xVampirAx on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 18:37

well to be honest if nothing is done by the time the first round of the 2017 season starts i might just leave as i have lost interest as the number of lobbies have reduced and some teams havent been able to race as a result of this and when i first raced here there was 4 lobbies but over time it reduced and the reason for this was because it was too much work for the staff,well if your trying to be the best then at least make things works otherwise people will leave and it will get to the point were you wont have a racing league.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 18:44

xVampirAx wrote:well to be honest if nothing is done by the time the first round of the 2017 season starts i might just leave as i have lost interest as the number of lobbies have reduced and some teams havent been able to race as a result of this and when i first raced here there was 4 lobbies but over time it reduced and the reason for this was because it was too much work for the staff,well if your trying to be the best then at least make things works otherwise people will leave and it will get to the point were you wont have a racing league.

In fairness to TORA, it is not their fault numbers have dwindled. I've been here since FM1 and the community has slowly declined in depth and substance over the years. There was a time when we would have multiple lobbies of exciting racing but those people have gone now. Where is CQR? Where is LRT? They're all pursuing other adventures. It is just the way it has gone and TORA are trying to carry a community up a steep hill - it's tough.

They do need to address the standards here though and an overhaul of something is needed. You pull out the seasoned teams from the N24 and you're left with a disaster. I've been here years and I was so disappointed for TORA this weekend, I really really was. I'm very grateful for TORA but it's time to take the bull by the horns and figure out what the hell we are doing here..
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by Senna on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 18:51

I agree with everything posted. Being slow isn't an issue, it's a lack of experience coupled with a blatant disregard in some cases for other drivers when you make a mistake. In stint 5 I was hit no less than 3 times by cars that by all rights should be nowhere near me. The only thing stopping a huge accident was the experience and reactions of drivers in TCC to avoid the liabilities littering the track. There has to be something in place for future events to stop this from happening, there is plenty that can be done and I know for sure that if asked, the majority of racers would be willing to help. There was a huge thread after Silverstone but nothing was done. The sentiment of Davids' post is one that is shared by many in the community and there is a huge risk right now that if tings aren't addressed quickly, there will most likely be a mass exodus.

TORA needs to have a good inward look because right now there is no incentive to race here whatsoever. These issues are not new and there has been little to no movement to rectify them and that just isn't acceptable. People take these events seriously and put in a huge amount of effort and time, time which is wasted when people like the drivers David listed above ruin things. This isn't elitist, this should be the pinnacle of organised racing and right now it just isn't. These are the marquee events for TORA, when things like this happen it looks bad. I know for a fact that Microsoft were watching this weekend. Is this the spectacle we want to put forward to them?

It's time for the staff to make some serious decisions about what TORA is and what it wants to be. There are legitimate alternatives out there and they are fast becoming more attractive.

There were some plus points, TCC battles were fantastic, some great side by side racing at points and I don't think I ever saw an incident in a TCC on TCC battle. The event was on time but the hosts need a little more support and cohesion. At one stage results from a previous stint had already been input so the grid wasn't accurate and the starting procedure was different in every stint I raced in. Kudos on the reactive stewarding too, having people proactively punished was nice, however the penalties applied did nothing to really address the problem. Giving someone at the back a distance penalty is nonsensical.

Finally, congratulations to all winners and thanks to all of our competitors in TCC. We will hopefully see you all again in 2017.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by CAR Harmonic on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 18:53

galeforce97 wrote:You may say this had nothing to do with pace or skill but clearly it does. The only reason you caught them is that they are not able to match the pace of their class.

You seem to have missed something I already covered...

CAR Harmonic wrote:I observed only ONE driver that made sure he did not interfere despite being off pace - Dr CHAIR PHD, I thank you for this.

He was running near TCC pace, but he made sure not to interfere with our race. If we approached him quickly in corners, he got off the racing line. If he needed to get past, he waited until there was a safe opportunity to do so. He understood how to race despite being off pace - the rest didn't.

Regardless, it'll be interesting to see what approach is taken to remedy these issues.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by ruthlessrellik on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:12

You guys can't sit here and complain about lack of attendance then say that 20% of the drivers shouldn't be allowed to race anymore. You can't treat new drivers like they're peasants and you're all gods. Maybe step off your high horse and realize this is a video game. We all wanted to come out and have fun. I did have fun during my stint, not because I ran around the track wrecking into every wall and driver. I wanted to come out and drive a good race for my team to have a chance to beat some people. I did have fun though. I had fun because everyone in my stint was enjoying themselves and not taking this more serious than is warranted.

I think you're all handling this wrong, I've talked with many of the stewards here since yesterday and before the race. They've all been very cordial and welcomed me and my team back for other series. You guys sitting here as if you're better than everyone may very well be the reason this series is loosing members.

Have some class, don't be an ass.

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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by Senna on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:17

ruthlessrellik wrote: Have some class, don't be an ass.

You spent the entirety of your last stint taking people out and laughing on stream, then have the gall to post something like this. You can mock how seriously people take this but that's not for you to decide. If you don't want to race to the standard expected, Forza has a whole area dedicated to you called 'Multiplayer', it's quite the revelation.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by CAR Harmonic on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:21

ruthlessrellik wrote: We all wanted to come out and have fun.
Have some class, don't be an ass.

Says the #1 culprit of this entire matter... There's a reason you were PROHIBITED from driving anymore. You were a hazard on the track and making the race more difficult for everyone else. You having fun at the expense of everyone else isn't how this is going to work. This is a racing community, and people take these events seriously. TORA is recognized by the MSA UK, and quite a few drivers here are sponsored by companies who have been informed that their teams will perform well on track. With people like you in the mix, that can't happen. People were trying to gain as much distance as possible to come back from incidents caused by guys like you. Meanwhile, you're sitting there on your stream chuckling as you smash into walls and re-enter the track in the middle of traffic. There are rules here, and you did not follow them. There are standards here, and you do not meet them. You belong in a public hopper, not an organized series. Either improve your race craft significantly, or kindly see yourself out. I'm glad I won't be around to share the track with you if you don't choose either.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by ruthlessrellik on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:22

Senna wrote:
ruthlessrellik wrote: Have some class, don't be an ass.

You spent the entirety of your last stint taking people out and laughing on stream, then have the gall to post something like this. You can mock how seriously people take this but that's not for you to decide. If you don't want to race to the standard expected, Forza has a whole area dedicated to you called 'Multiplayer', it's quite the revelation.

You must not have heard what I said.

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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by F4H Lotterer on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:25

This is why we can't have nice things.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by Flyin Mikey J on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:26

There's been discussions within staff, even prior to this event, about implimenting a ladder system of sorts within TORA events. I can thank the day's events for illustrating my point about why it is needed to the letter.

Yes, for TEC and other top tier events, we need to screen who is "In" and who does "Not" have the credentials to be on track. And we do have lots of events mre suitable for new members to compete in, which would theoretically screen out those who lack the experience. That approach, in my opinion, would work well. Thing is, it had never been tried at TORA before, but was already in planning for 2017.

Let's hope that the changes needed get implemented sooner rather than later.


Last edited by Flyin Mikey J on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:26; edited 1 time in total


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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by ruthlessrellik on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:26

CAR Harmonic wrote:
ruthlessrellik wrote: We all wanted to come out and have fun.
Have some class, don't be an ass.

Says the #1 culprit of this entire matter... There's a reason you were PROHIBITED from driving anymore. You were a hazard on the track and making the race more difficult for everyone else. You having fun at the expense of everyone else isn't how this is going to work. This is a racing community, and people take these events seriously. TORA is recognized by the MSA UK, and quite a few drivers here are sponsored by companies who have been informed that their teams will perform well on track. With people like you in the mix, that can't happen. People were trying to gain as much distance as possible to come back from incidents caused by guys like you. Meanwhile, you're sitting there on your stream chuckling as you smash into walls and re-enter the track in the middle of traffic. There are rules here, and you did not follow them. There are standards here, and you do not meet them. You belong in a public hopper, not an organized series. Either improve your race craft significantly, or kindly see yourself out. I'm glad I won't be around to share the track with you if you don't choose either.

It seems you're not aware that you're not well liked in the Forza community. This seems to be why. You think to highly of yourself. Ask many of the other drivers in the GT party during stint 4, they were making jokes and being funny, so I laughed.

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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by HCR Motorhead on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:28

ruthlessrellik wrote:You guys can't sit here and complain about lack of attendance then say that 20% of the drivers shouldn't be allowed to race anymore. You can't treat new drivers like they're peasants and you're all gods. Maybe step off your high horse and realize this is a video game. We all wanted to come out and have fun. I did have fun during my stint, not because I ran around the track wrecking into every wall and driver. I wanted to come out and drive a good race for my team to have a chance to beat some people. I did have fun though. I had fun because everyone in my stint was enjoying themselves and not taking this more serious than is warranted.

I think you're all handling this wrong, I've talked with many of the stewards here since yesterday and before the race. They've all been very cordial and welcomed me and my team back for other series. You guys sitting here as if you're better than everyone may very well be the reason this series is loosing members.

Have some class, don't be an ass.

Credit must be given to the way your team handled the situation last night and a warning goes out to anyone in that stream who was flaming, baiting and trolling. There is a line and people crossed it. The stark truth is that some events are harder than others and this is one of the hardest and you're going up [Censored] creek without a paddle. The stewards made their decision on your actions and hopefully that gives some stimulus on what TORA expects from its drivers. It's certainly not a crime to be slow but if you're hazardous and dangerous then that's not welcome. You weren't actually supposed to be fighting the Touring Car spec class cars but you found yourself there and you did what you did and we hope that you understand our reasoning for issuing the sanctions that we did, hopefully this doesn't mean total discouragement and that you can practice and have an appropriate attitude towards these tough racing disciplines.

But if anyone is outrageously negligent or malicious with no intention to change their attitude or even care and give respect to people around them, it's these people that are likely to completely fall out of favour with the community and stewards/staff alike.


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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:29

ruthlessrellik wrote:
CAR Harmonic wrote:
ruthlessrellik wrote: We all wanted to come out and have fun.
Have some class, don't be an ass.

Says the #1 culprit of this entire matter... There's a reason you were PROHIBITED from driving anymore. You were a hazard on the track and making the race more difficult for everyone else. You having fun at the expense of everyone else isn't how this is going to work. This is a racing community, and people take these events seriously. TORA is recognized by the MSA UK, and quite a few drivers here are sponsored by companies who have been informed that their teams will perform well on track. With people like you in the mix, that can't happen. People were trying to gain as much distance as possible to come back from incidents caused by guys like you. Meanwhile, you're sitting there on your stream chuckling as you smash into walls and re-enter the track in the middle of traffic. There are rules here, and you did not follow them. There are standards here, and you do not meet them. You belong in a public hopper, not an organized series. Either improve your race craft significantly, or kindly see yourself out. I'm glad I won't be around to share the track with you if you don't choose either.

It seems you're not aware that you're not well liked in the Forza community. This seems to be why. You think to highly of yourself. Ask many of the other drivers in the GT party during stint 4, they were making jokes and being funny, so I laughed.

Speak for yourself and not others. Now you're throwing stones which isn't welcomed. David is a valued member of the community and you can certainly remove myself and or anyone associated with our team from your 'bucket of people' who dislike him.

You had many people watching you, laughing at you and saying how embarrassing it was that you even took part. It's not a nice thing to say but you showed us all why guys now need to be screened. Even your team were apologizing for your behaviour.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by CAR Harmonic on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:32

ruthlessrellik wrote:
CAR Harmonic wrote:
ruthlessrellik wrote: We all wanted to come out and have fun.
Have some class, don't be an ass.

Says the #1 culprit of this entire matter... There's a reason you were PROHIBITED from driving anymore. You were a hazard on the track and making the race more difficult for everyone else. You having fun at the expense of everyone else isn't how this is going to work. This is a racing community, and people take these events seriously. TORA is recognized by the MSA UK, and quite a few drivers here are sponsored by companies who have been informed that their teams will perform well on track. With people like you in the mix, that can't happen. People were trying to gain as much distance as possible to come back from incidents caused by guys like you. Meanwhile, you're sitting there on your stream chuckling as you smash into walls and re-enter the track in the middle of traffic. There are rules here, and you did not follow them. There are standards here, and you do not meet them. You belong in a public hopper, not an organized series. Either improve your race craft significantly, or kindly see yourself out. I'm glad I won't be around to share the track with you if you don't choose either.

It seems you're not aware that you're not well liked in the Forza community. This seems to be why. You think to highly of yourself. Ask many of the other drivers in the GT party during stint 4, they were making jokes and being funny, so I laughed.

I find it quite funny that you know anything about my reputation when no one even knew who you were prior to your registration for this event... I've done a hell of a lot for this community, and I don't hesitate to say what is on everyone else's mind. By your logic, people don't like ANYONE who was at the front of A lobby since they agree with me here, and we clearly know that's not the case. People from all over the place ask me for help on things related to the game, and I happily oblige. The fact that your car was in the wall more than it was on the track renders your opinion rather useless, honestly. I'm not the only one who has a problem with you here, so I advise you to tread lightly and behave yourself from here on out.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by Radiation Louis on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:35

I did not participate in this event so I'm not going to comment on what may or may not have happened but do know to those who are commenting, I am monitoring the hostility here.


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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by xebot360 on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:37

There was some questionable driving from what I saw on streams and heard from other drivers, some of the guys mentioned by Harmonic. A ladder system could work or a series where rookies have to enter or something they have to do before they're "ready" to do events such as these. As for the attendence thing, maybe TORA could "help" teams as such and actually make them want to stay here cause that will help attendance out a lot more if you can get teams to stay. Hope these issues are addressed before next year.

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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by ruthlessrellik on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:40

HCR Motorhead wrote:
ruthlessrellik wrote:You guys can't sit here and complain about lack of attendance then say that 20% of the drivers shouldn't be allowed to race anymore. You can't treat new drivers like they're peasants and you're all gods. Maybe step off your high horse and realize this is a video game. We all wanted to come out and have fun. I did have fun during my stint, not because I ran around the track wrecking into every wall and driver. I wanted to come out and drive a good race for my team to have a chance to beat some people. I did have fun though. I had fun because everyone in my stint was enjoying themselves and not taking this more serious than is warranted.

I think you're all handling this wrong, I've talked with many of the stewards here since yesterday and before the race. They've all been very cordial and welcomed me and my team back for other series. You guys sitting here as if you're better than everyone may very well be the reason this series is loosing members.

Have some class, don't be an ass.

Credit must be given to the way your team handled the situation last night and a warning goes out to anyone in that stream who was flaming, baiting and trolling. There is a line and people crossed it. The stark truth is that some events are harder than others and this is one of the hardest and you're going up [Censored] creek without a paddle. The stewards made their decision on your actions and hopefully that gives some stimulus on what TORA expects from its drivers. It's certainly not a crime to be slow but if you're hazardous and dangerous then that's not welcome. You weren't actually supposed to be fighting the Touring Car spec class cars but you found yourself there and you did what you did and we hope that you understand our reasoning for issuing the sanctions that we did, hopefully this doesn't mean total discouragement and that you can practice and have an appropriate attitude towards these tough racing disciplines.

But if anyone is outrageously negligent or malicious with no intention to change their attitude or even care and give respect to people around them, it's these people that are likely to completely fall out of favour with the community and stewards/staff alike.

Yes I agree. I am not sitting here to gloat that I knocked people off track. I am just trying to say that it is not right for these guys to complain about not having quality races because people leave, and they act like ******** about it.

I was not intentionally wrecking people. I was not laughing because I was wrecking people. I was laughing because people were making jokes. I have talked to the stewards and understand and agree with the actions taken by them. I knew I was being hazardous to myself and my team, but I had no intentions to ruin anyones race. This would normally warrant an apology but you guys, Lord Harmonic and King Hakkinen, are being **** about it. To everyone else I affected, I've already spoke with HCR TJ, and I'm not sure who was in that little blue car that I apparently murdered, I am sorry.

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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by xebot360 on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:45

Thing is though, kick those drivers out and you're left with the likes of F4H, HCR and LMR only pretty much racing here, lowering attendance even more

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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by HCR Solar on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:45

1. Dave is a sound guy, he may think highly off himself but he is 1 of the People that you can send a Message to, and be like "Ayup Dude by any chance do you have a tune" and if you haven't pissed him off before he would surely help you out.

2. i am also out of this HCR has been on the Decline On TORA since Start of the Year. i am also pursuing other things and hoping to transition to Iracing just to be with my HCR lads and just have a Laugh whilst still pursuing my Streaming,

3. people were having a [Censored] fit at me in Whisper when i said Drivers in GT who are at the Same Pace as TCC should be put into TCC and its just stupidity, you want to Improve yes we get that, but don't go into a class where your Competing with a Lower Class work your way up, Its what i did i started in TCC, then GT and moved all way up to LMP1 and i reckon everyone here can vouch im a Average Driver in all of them Classes

4.  TORA has been needing a Overhaul for Ages, the Lack of Respect from Drivers for the Constant effort put in by the Community Staff,Marshals,Stewards,Media,Dev Team is Horrendous and people wonder why, Cars (May Not be Correctly Balanced), (no Stream for a few hours), (Stints not running on Time) and many other things, it is because most people here (Just don't give a toss).

im done and yeah i will be pulling myself out of Dev Team and the Media Team.  but like Dave said above if things pick up i may make a return to TORA but until then i'll be lurking in the Shadows.




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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

Post by Capirossi22 on Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 19:55

Senna wrote:I agree with everything posted. Being slow isn't an issue, it's a lack of experience coupled with a blatant disregard in some cases for other drivers when you make a mistake. In stint 5 I was hit no less than 3 times by cars that by all rights should be nowhere near me. The only thing stopping a huge accident was the experience and reactions of drivers in TCC to avoid the liabilities littering the track. There has to be something in place for future events to stop this from happening, there is plenty that can be done and I know for sure that if asked, the majority of racers would be willing to help. There was a huge thread after Silverstone but nothing was done. The sentiment of Davids' post is one that is shared by many in the community and there is a huge risk right now that if tings aren't addressed quickly, there will most likely be a mass exodus.

TORA needs to have a good inward look because right now there is no incentive to race here whatsoever. These issues are not new and there has been little to no movement to rectify them and that just isn't acceptable. People take these events seriously and put in a huge amount of effort and time, time which is wasted when people like the drivers David listed above ruin things. This isn't elitist, this should be the pinnacle of organised racing and right now it just isn't. These are the marquee events for TORA, when things like this happen it looks bad. I know for a fact that Microsoft were watching this weekend. Is this the spectacle we want to put forward to them?

It's time for the staff to make some serious decisions about what TORA is and what it wants to be. There are legitimate alternatives out there and they are fast becoming more attractive.

There were some plus points, TCC battles were fantastic, some great side by side racing at points and I don't think I ever saw an incident in a TCC on TCC battle. The event was on time but the hosts need a little more support and cohesion. At one stage results from a previous stint had already been input so the grid wasn't accurate and the starting procedure was different in every stint I raced in. Kudos on the reactive stewarding too, having people proactively punished was nice, however the penalties applied did nothing to really address the problem. Giving someone at the back a distance penalty is nonsensical.

Finally, congratulations to all winners and thanks to all of our competitors in TCC. We will hopefully see you all again in 2017.

You consistently block me for over half a lap when I was much faster than you, and when I get stuck on curb and you rear end me, you call that me hitting you? I gained nearly 2,000 feet on you in the first quarter of a lap, but I couldn't get around you because you stayed planted in the middle of the road and moved in front of me every time I tried to pass you. I waited until the safest possible moment to get around you in a slow turn under braking. I lost over 4,000 feet to the car ahead because I was stuck on your ass for so long. I accidentally took a little too much curb after I passed you and got slowed down when I bottomed out, and you hit me. Then you have the nerve to call me a "liability?" I was complaining about this in the party chat and another driver said that you had been blocking him in the previous stint as well, so I am not the only one to have experienced this. You cannot blame a problem on someone else when you are the one who created the problem in the first place.
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Re: A Harsh But Necessary Review

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