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TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

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TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by F4H Diablo on Thu 12 Jan 2017 - 2:40

For this round, we are making clarifications as to track limits at specific sections of track. If it is not specified, 2 wheels MUST remain on track at all times, designated by the lines on the outside of the track.

Turn 3

This is legal!


This is not.



Entrance to the Bus Stop Chicane

This is legal!


This is not.



Exit of Bus Stop Chicane

This is legal!


This is not.




I hope this clears this up for everyone!


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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by DonatedSatyr227 on Thu 12 Jan 2017 - 7:18

^

Perfect clarifications of the track limits.
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by CAR Harmonic on Thu 12 Jan 2017 - 16:26

F4H Diablo wrote:
This is not.


What if someone does this in qualifying? The game actually counts that as clean most of the time.
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by EZT MAKO 6669 on Fri 13 Jan 2017 - 9:41

I'm sorry but I'm compelled to voice my extreme opposition to this. There is never a need anywhere to "clarify" track limits. They are clearly defined by the sporting rules and reg's. Also note that the rules do not take into consideration what the game thinks is clean or dirty, because everyone know's the game is pathetically inconsistent regarding track limits.

Also, no race or event should ever have any rules or variances that do not comply fully with the league's rules and standards. Allowing such is not only unfair to every other event, but also sets a very dangerous precedent. If the track can be cut at Daytona in TEC, then why not Road Atlanta in American Iron? You want to know the short answer to that question?, it can. If it's OK for one race, then it's OK for the next, and the next, and the next.......

I've been an avid fan of motorsports for over 40 years. I watch almost every discipline there is. Outside of Nascar, there is absolutely no series that allows all 4 wheels over the white line. EVER!

I can find absolutely no argument that would justify allowing the bus stop to be cut in that manner. The pictures above showing a "legal" position would not be acceptable in any racing universe.
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by CAR Harmonic on Fri 13 Jan 2017 - 13:40

EZT MAKO 6669 wrote:I can find absolutely no argument that would justify allowing the bus stop to be cut in that manner. The pictures above showing a "legal" position would not be acceptable in any racing universe.

This is absolutely false. If this line was faster in real life, drivers would take it and likely not be penalized. Recall a race at COTA a couple of years ago... The stewards decided not to police track limits, and the drivers were extending the track worse than anyone you'd see in a Forza hopper. Everything in racing is conditional, and the rules are set by the governing body and are subject to change at any time.

The point is that everyone who has done this track in the game has learned this line, so it makes sense to make it legal. Asking people to monitor their lines through a hairy corner is asking a bit much for a game, and it will cause more incidents than it will save. It's not going to change, so whether you do it or not is your choice. Just know that if you're involved in a wreck in that turn, and you put yourself in that position by trying to take a conservative line, you will most likely be at fault.
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by HCR Noodle on Fri 13 Jan 2017 - 14:03

Track Limits:
7.5.11 “Track limits” as defined by the MSA refer to the two white lines at either edge of the track. This may also include kerbing or the edge of the tarmac (or other racing surface) dependent on rules specified in a championship’s Rules & Regulations.

Seems perfectly acceptable to set this as the limit within our book.



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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by F4H Venom on Fri 13 Jan 2017 - 14:59

There is no possible way to regulate the bus stop besides saying 4 tires in the grass will be penalized. If you want to watch every single person every lap through the bus stop be my guest and waste your own time
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by EZT MAKO 6669 on Fri 13 Jan 2017 - 16:10

No reason to be antagonostic there Nova.
I am not competing in TEC, so what I would or wouldn't do is irrelevant.
Just because everyone has learned an improper line doesn't make it correct.
As I stated, I have been following motorsports longer than most of you have been alive. Yes, use of the curbing is acceptable in all disciplines, but I know for a fact that four wheels over the white lines is against the rules in every sanctioning body, MSA, IMSA, F1, WEC, Rolex. ( COTA is a garbage track and should be discounted)

That said, over the last year, the single biggest complaint directed at both the staff and support groups (stewards) was inconsistencies in the application of our rules and standards. That was my sole motivation for my comments.

I had no intentions of starting a protracted arguement, nor will I engage in one. I merely stated my opinion and concern as a member of the support staff. Consider it or not, the choice is yours. I'll have nothing further to say on the matter.

Respectfully,
Mako
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by F4H Venom on Fri 13 Jan 2017 - 16:15

This isn't the TEC btw
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by Foreu2env on Fri 13 Jan 2017 - 16:20

EZT MAKO 6669 wrote: Outside of Nascar, there is absolutely no series that allows all 4 wheels over the white line. EVER!

You should watch the 2015 IMSA race at COTA.  The track limits were "expanded" and all 4 wheels over the white line were accepted.  Just in case you haven't seen the race, here you go. LINK

Go to the 7 minute 30 second mark to get an explanation of the track limits

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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by ShrinkingSteven on Fri 13 Jan 2017 - 16:26

To be honest allowing people to take more in the corners than they ideally should just makes thing easier.
It saves Live stream chats going mad when someone shags the kerbs to much and also if all the cool kids do it then everyone can without feeling butt hurt.
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by LMP Riptide on Fri 13 Jan 2017 - 23:08

This sounds very much like the Charlie Whiting / Toto Wolff / Christian Horner debate - three different approaches, but the three wise men have one thing in common 》》》that consistency should rule.
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by ShrinkingSteven on Fri 13 Jan 2017 - 23:09

^^ This guy knows it. ^^
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by F4H Diablo on Sat 14 Jan 2017 - 0:12

The consistency is that the rules are to be white line unless explicitly noted, as seen above Wink


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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by CAR Harmonic on Sun 15 Jan 2017 - 18:58

EZT MAKO 6669 wrote:I had no intentions of starting a protracted arguement, nor will I engage in one.
That's rich... Your post was going to start an argument and you know it.

EZT MAKO 6669 wrote:I merely stated my opinion and concern as a member of the support staff.
Your opinion might have held some weight if you had actually made some sort of contribution on the site within the past year...

The limits have been addressed according to the TORA Sporting Regulations. Don't like it? Too bad.
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by Nick Totten on Sun 15 Jan 2017 - 21:53

CAR Harmonic wrote:
EZT MAKO 6669 wrote:I can find absolutely no argument that would justify allowing the bus stop to be cut in that manner. The pictures above showing a "legal" position would not be acceptable in any racing universe.

This is absolutely false. If this line was faster in real life, drivers would take it and likely not be penalized. Recall a race at COTA a couple of years ago... The stewards decided not to police track limits, and the drivers were extending the track worse than anyone you'd see in a Forza hopper. Everything in racing is conditional, and the rules are set by the governing body and are subject to change at any time.

The point is that everyone who has done this track in the game has learned this line, so it makes sense to make it legal. Asking people to monitor their lines through a hairy corner is asking a bit much for a game, and it will cause more incidents than it will save. It's not going to change, so whether you do it or not is your choice. Just know that if you're involved in a wreck in that turn, and you put yourself in that position by trying to take a conservative line, you will most likely be at fault.

To be fair, the COTA race to which you are referring was the IMSA race. The WEC event that occurred the same exact weekend adhered to FIA determined track limits.
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Re: TORA American Endurance Cup: Daytona 24 Track Limits

Post by F4H Diablo on Sun 15 Jan 2017 - 22:25

The rules have been established in the OP. Anyone else can take it up with me in PM's.


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